Message board #Rules for upcoming trade and draft w

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Rules for upcoming trade and draft w comments [newest on top]

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 3.Jun 23:58, 2018
1) Yes
2) Yes - and it would also be a good idea to end the transfer window 24 hours before the draft starts so that all managers can prepare properly and not have to improvise due to changes in wage being accounced five minutes before the draft starts
3) I agree

As posted on Friday, anyone with a proposal should post it for discussion in the off-season.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Saturday 2.Jun 13:28, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
Here are some amendments and clarifications that should be added to the SF rules page.

1) If your draft is skipped (due to inactivity), it can not be used to steal.
2) A trade is not official/valid until posted on the message board with full contract details.
3) A clarification about the free revenge steal rule, specifying that it's your original last draft that decides where the line is drawn, irrespective of whether you have traded a final round draft pick.


1 - The Mørkøv steal was allowed last night because it wasn't delayed by that much... Do we need a more firm guideline on this? Slippery slope, this. 10 mins before being skipped isn't much... Disallowing steals when the draft is delayed by one full round should prevent too much potential for abuse either way.
2 - Either manager is free to change his mind until that has been done. It's not much to ask for, and will pressure people into not waiting until 5 mins before the deadline to post wages. #Soler

Anything else?

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 31.May 23:18, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
that sounds resonable. line drawn at original last draft, regardless of whether you have gained or given away a last round draft through trading

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Thursday 31.May 23:14, 2018
I think we had that rule in 2016 or 2017 - was a lot of hassle. Good riddance.

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Thursday 31.May 23:13, 2018
When last draft pick is traded away, it should only be steals after originally 5th pick which should counts

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 31.May 23:13, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
did we ever do that? we have the rule of a free revenge steal to prevent punches below the belt after a manager has made his last draft. (not sure how that rule should work for cases where the last draft pick has been traded away though. thats a technicality we should solve before it becomes a problem)

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Thursday 31.May 23:08, 2018
EPO - do we still reverse draft order in the final round or was that abolished already in the first window this year?

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Thursday 31.May 22:57, 2018
Great! Had to finish off some work after the kids had been put to sleep - pouring myself a rum and coke to start the proper work here now.

Only Bulmer's tomorrow, obviously. 3 or 4?

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 31.May 21:59, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
yes

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Thursday 31.May 21:45, 2018
Button has been pushed to updated rider scores after all results today? I start grinding soon.

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Thursday 31.May 21:39, 2018
Expecting kjeppen to do full draft list later today.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 31.May 21:33, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
it will be the opposite of this, so johnjackjoe goes first and bendit last

Bendit 4968
Green Bullet Cycling 4855
LSK Cycling 4651
K92-Team Neverland 4416
El pistolero 4392
nibalies 4290
Erythropoietin 4204
JuhaMieto 4201
Luxembourg Finest 4090
Troy The Trader 4034
Second Coming 3723
TORA TORA TORA 3560
Il Piccolo Partykjepps 3534
Skjelstadmark IL 3359
Ritlefant 2899
The Rockets 2835
Cycling lions 2761
sylvainm 2289
FruitnOats 2161
CT Glory 1619
JohnJackJoe Racing 1517

boris03 [Cycling lions] Thursday 31.May 21:32, 2018
Can someone post draft order?

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Thursday 31.May 13:46, 2018
Last day for period one is today, so final standings ready in some hours.

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Thursday 31.May 13:37, 2018
Go ahead Francisco!

Tomas - it would be nice to have standings for the first period finalized so we can settle draft order :)

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Wednesday 30.May 18:22, 2018
23th FC-manager overall
Partykjeppen, i'm counting on you for my first pick if not in time for me to get in position! :)
I'll send you a message with rider's name tomorrow or friday ok?
Not that i need time to think, he's chosed since January.. :)

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Tuesday 29.May 22:58, 2018
KristianK - I reiterate that you are free to drop Adrien Costa if you’d like given he’s on indefinite hiatus

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Tuesday 29.May 22:57, 2018
Could matter for draft order for me and Toraboi.

Tomas [Second Coming] Tuesday 29.May 20:31, 2018
Well, Cam Meyer won it, so it can't be that bad ;)

Assassin [Troy The Trader] Tuesday 29.May 20:27, 2018
18th FC-manager overall
I'm not even bothered, i'd rather take no points than hammer points :D

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Tuesday 29.May 20:14, 2018
That are so few points that it almost doesn't count, unless your name is Intxausti.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Tuesday 29.May 20:11, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
not to forget, we are still missing some results from the hammer series (which are still incorrect over at UCI)

Tomas [Second Coming] Tuesday 29.May 18:02, 2018
(In the team pages x/400 marker).

Tomas [Second Coming] Tuesday 29.May 18:01, 2018
Counting being set to periode II in a few seconds.

Aragonite [TORA TORA TORA] Tuesday 29.May 17:49, 2018
5th FC-manager overall - 8th FC-manager last 6 weeks
Points for Mancebo, Kristian. :)

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Tuesday 29.May 17:22, 2018
Fair point. Tomas - are points/wages coded so that they’re includes in the window for second part of the season from June 1st onward? In that case Premature Polly rescinds the final standings to be re-done on the morning of June 1st

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Tuesday 29.May 16:55, 2018
Not including Winston-Salem or it is counting for next period?

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Tuesday 29.May 15:51, 2018
Official mid-way standings which will then be reversed to establish draft order. Congrats to Bendit, just imagine when Acevedo starts raking in points too! Your prize is that if you ever go to Sfizi Pizza in Rome and say you are a friend of Kjeppen they will treat you royally.

Place Team Points
1 Bendit 4930
2 Green Bullet Cycling 4819
3 LSK Cycling 4641
4 K92-Team Neverland 4405
5 El pistolero 4388
6 nibalies 4277
7 Erythropoietin 4198
8 JuhaMieto 4172
9 Luxembourg Finest 4067
10 Troy The Trader 4034
11 Second Coming 3668
12 TORA TORA TORA 3535
13 Il Piccolo Partykjepps 3516
14 Skjelstadmark IL 3347
15 Ritlefant 2897
16 The Rockets 2829
17 Cycling lions 2761
18 sylvainm 2284
19 FruitnOats 2159
20 CT Glory 1588
21 JohnJackJoe Racing 1517

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 22:52, 2018
New managers get 4.

We should discuss raising the minimum squad size for 2019 onwards. Perhaps we should institute the same rules for min and max squad size as UCI has for the World Tour? Easier to follow stagiaire-principle in summer window then too.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 27.May 15:06, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
"if they find themselves with a alot of riders they don't want to renew with at the end of a season"
> because of shitty signings

"or if they get plundered in a draft window."
> because of wages set too low. the manager you are referring to has more than 50 % of his budget unused, so its not like the steals couldnt have been avoided

"One-off possibility to reduce contract length only for new managers and not a permanent feature - all good."
> also a result of poor choices, but understandable for newcomers. how many? 4? or 2?

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 14:56, 2018
Kinds sirs, please note that the Victorian fainting couch is reserved for other games and/or when Andy announces his trades with Troy.

One-off possibility to reduce contract length only for new managers and not a permanent feature - all good.

However, I still think we should be looking to harmonize the squad sizes more than having a potential 50% difference like between Kristian and Sylv in the first half of this season. Raising the minimum squad size slightly whilst keeping max intact I don't think would lead to a rise in short-termism. It will let people stock up on unsigned riders if they find themselves with a alot of riders they don't want to renew with at the end of a season or if they get plundered in a draft window.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 14:20, 2018
As i see this its come down to thats looks like we want to punish longterm thinking rather than rewarding it.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 14:17, 2018
Thats also give no sence. Its easy to have a squad of 30 riders. You just have to resign and/or trade so you have 22-25 riders before the winterdraft start.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 27.May 14:13, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
Did you mean 25 minimum and 28 maximum? That is just unheard of in my opinion... It totally takes the tactical aspect / good choices out of it if everyone is to be "equal" at the end anyway...

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 27.May 14:09, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
"In general, bigger squads means more points. I think the current permitted minimum 20 and maximum 30-rule combined with the number of draft picks leaves too big differences in points-potential. I suggest we narrow this to 25-28 in the first window in 2019, it'll also be much more in line with the sizes of the current WT-squads."

This would just force good teams to throw out riders. After the winter draft in 2017 I was at 29 riders. Why? Because I had an excellent 2016 season and didn't have to release a lot of underperformers. If I would have to drop down to 25, it would mean sacking 4 riders for no other reason than that my team was too good = protection against bad choices for the teams who did bad in 2016.
Of course there was then the problem of 29 riders + 5 drafts = 34 riders > 30 limit, which meant I had to use the tactical option of giving (underperforming) riders away for free before the summer draft.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 14:02, 2018
If you see riders and teams get mutually ending contracts is always a economic compensastion in the picture. The old teams normally pays part of or the whole salary for the riders in his new team and if you dont find a new team then its never a mutually agreementt

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 13:57, 2018
For existing manage this give no sence. For new manager is give small sence but disagree their also. You should rather have to trade the riders away who should be possible in the most cases.

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 13:55, 2018
I silghtly disagree with you on that latter point though Kristian, you do see teams and riders unilaterally or mutually ending contracts early.

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 13:49, 2018
All fair. Also as far as giving existing managers a one-off chance along with the new managers too?

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 13:48, 2018
Decreasing contract length have no realism either....

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Sunday 27.May 13:43, 2018
I am also thinking the same as Andy and Epo. Dont make rules against bad choices.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 27.May 13:40, 2018
2nd FC-manager overall - 3rd FC-manager last 6 weeks
I'm thinking the same as Andy..
Adding rules to protect against bad choices defeats the purpose of the game. It is a long-term prediction game where the choices you make now shouldn't be irrelevant for next year.

If you give Davide Rebellin a 2023 contract worth $40 then it is your own fault if he doesn't perform as you hoped. If 5 riders are stolen from you then it's your own fault for setting the wages at a stupid low level. If you end up at 30 riders rather than 20 then you should get the rewards from that.

There are tactical reasons for choosing either a 1 year or 2 year contract. There's the risk of underperforming, the 15 % cost of 1 year extension, as well as many other considerations that decide which one you choose. On my team it's about 50-50 currently, which suggests it's fairly well balanced as it is.

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Sunday 27.May 13:30, 2018
We all tries to get better riders then we give away. I would never done a deal where the riders who leave my team would get higher expected points than the one I get. The most overpaid rider for me is Porte, but he is unfortunately staying for another half a year at least. But will never reduce contract length of him because of several reasons like I will not get anything in return if he leaves at the end of the contract.

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 13:25, 2018
But you just trade all your bad riders to Troy to get a better one back, Andy ;)

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Sunday 27.May 13:23, 2018
Well I still disagree if I am allowed to. 2 years deals is more risky, and everybody knows that, but we put 2 years because of the 15% increase of only 1 year contracts. Vakoc is similar to my Degenkolb (even though Degenkolb returned faster than Vakoc), I never tried to get rid of him before I got a trading offer last summer. Yes, it is about luck but that is part of the game.

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 13:16, 2018
To balance it out, not be too favourable to our new managers either.

I'm thinking it perhaps can be a good to institute in the summer window in general to make the game a bit more dynamic. Some instances will be helping out unfortunate mangagers (Vakoc, Capiot), some instances will be helping out more foolish steals (I know PartyFinn want to get rid of Bil Phauhaus). The net effect would still be more good riders free on the market at the start of every season.

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Sunday 27.May 13:12, 2018
*Existing managers get the same chance for up to two riders

Why this? I can understand for new managers, but not for existing. If we have long contract on somebody not getting as many points as we were hoping on it is our own problems for doing so. #Kreuziger

Partykjeppen [Il Piccolo Partykjepps] Sunday 27.May 12:42, 2018
Transfer window opens as soon as today's Giro-stage is finished. All transfers have to be posted in the thread I'll soon open. Remember that all riders who are traded have to have at least 75% of their previous wage in their new team. Contract length in the new team can be set regardless of previous contract length. Max contract length is still 2019 in this window.

Everyone can increase wages and also contract length of up to four riders if they'd like. Remember that if you want to extend a contract ending in 2018 to 2019, you have to increase the wage by 15% at minimum. These increases are to be posted in a separate thread I open.

As per the discussion points in the "Trade prorposal"-thread, this season has been a bit of an experiment with the big influx of new managers. In addition to Fjellda, I think it's fair to say Aragonite is coming good too. Still I think it's fair we do some adjustments to level the playing field in the mid-to-long-term. I see the biggest issue as the new managers making haphazard signings on two-year contracts due to not having first-hand knowledge. The best way I see to rectify this is the following:
*New managers can change contract length for up to five riders from 2019 to 2018
*Existing managers get the same chance for up to two riders

Remember that a if you want to keep a rider with a contract ending in 2018 at the end of the year, you'll have to increase his wages by at least 15% at and he can't be traded in the January window.

In general, bigger squads means more points. I think the current permitted minimum 20 and maximum 30-rule combined with the number of draft picks leaves too big differences in points-potential. I suggest we narrow this to 25-28 in the first window in 2019, it'll also be much more in line with the sizes of the current WT-squads.

The upcoming draft will start at 19:00 CET on Friday June 1st. The transfer window thus shuts at 18:59 CET, also the deadline for announcing contract renewals/length decreases.

Draft order is the reverse of the manager standing after all of today's racing has been completed. Can an admin please post this once they've run the script to update SF-points tonight please?

The first round is an extra pick for our six new managers
Round 2-6 is everyone
Round 7 is an extra pick for our six new managers
After round 7, it's anyone who haven't got 20 riders yet

We drop the possibility of giving the new managers 32 riders until the end of the year, sorting it out with the possiblity to drop more riders early next year and more harmonized squad sizes from then on.

Beware that between 19:00 CET - 00:00 on Friday 1st, any draft which hasn't been made within 10 minutes is skipped and has to be made up whenever the manager can. Me and others will be more than happy to make drafts on behalf of those who can't be there for parts or all of the draft.

I'm open to iron out the details on harmonized squad sizes and number of picks for next year, but I'm hoping that the other details here are acceptable enough to all :)